温家宝总理接受《华盛顿邮报》总编唐尼采访(9)
唐:1989年的时候你去了天安门广场,见到了学生们,他们是反革命分子,还是爱国者?
Q: If I may ask one question about the events of 1989 in Tiananmen. You went to visit the students there during that time. Have you concluded were they counterrevolutionaries or were they patriots?
温:上个世纪八十年代末九十年代初,苏联、东欧发生剧变,在中国也发生了一场政治风波。当时,中国党和政府及时果断地采取措施,维护了社会的稳定,并且下定决心继续推进改革开放。10多年来,中国发展的历史证明,稳定在中国是至关重要的。作为中国的总理,我最关心的是中国的稳定与发展问题,因为中国有13亿人口。
A: In the last century, at the turn of the 1980s and 1990s, drastic changes took place in the Soviet Union and countries of Eastern Europe. In China, a political disturbance occurred. At that time, the party and government of China adopted resolute measures in a timely fashion to safeguard social stability and became more determined to press ahead with China's reform and opening up. Our development over the past years has proven that stability is of vital importance for China. As premier of this country, I think the most important issue for me is to ensure stability and development. This is because China has 1.3 billion people.
唐:你刚才讲到稳定对中国是至关重要的。而布什总统在他最近两次重要演讲中,都谈到自由的重要性,认为自由是美国的核心价值观。你认为美中两国的价值观是不同,还是相似?对于未来中美关系的发展有什么影响?
Q: You've talked about stability being an important concern of yours here. President Bush has in two recent major speeches, one in Washington and yesterday in London, has talked about the importance of freedom as a core American value, particularly in reference to the attacks by terrorists on American and British and other targets. Do you see the core values of America and China being different or similar, and how does that affect the future development of Chinese-American relations?
温:我想反问一句,在中国改革开放 25年、经济发生巨大变化的同时,难道你们没有看到中国人民民主和自由发生的变化?比如择业自由,获取信息的自由,旅游的自由。25年以前,中国人到外国去,包括到我们自己的香港去,都是不可能的。现在每年有上千万人次到世界各地去。还有我刚才讲的宗教信仰自由问题。
我想对先生讲一句我的感受,作为中国的总理,我感觉担子很重,工作难度很大,工作也做不完。13亿,是一个很大的数字,如果你用乘法来算,一个很小的问题,乘以 13亿,都会变成一个大问题。如果你用除法的话,一个很大的总量,除以 13亿,都会变成一个小的数目。这是许多外国人不容易理解的。
我记得杰斐逊起草的《独立宣言》有这样一段话:人生而平等。由于人生而平等,他们都享有固有的不可剥夺的权利,其中有维护生命和自由的权利以及追求幸福的权利。我刚才讲到,在中国,讲人权首先是生存权和发展权。有些西方朋友感到不可理解。其实,读读杰斐逊 1776年起草的《独立宣言》,他也是把生存权摆在了第一位。难道从 18世纪的《独立宣言》,到 19世纪的南北战争,到 20世纪的马丁•路德•金事件,不也反映了美国民主和自由发展的过程吗?
恕我直言,美国有一些人对中国的了解不如我们对美国了解的多。
A: Let me ask you a question. In the past 25 years of reform and opening up, enormous changes have taken places in China's economic landscape. Have people from the outside ever seen the changes taking place in China's democracy and freedom? At the moment, people can choose what kind of jobs they want to have, they can choose what kind of information they seek, they can choose where to visit. Twenty-five years ago, for a Chinese person to visit a foreign country or even to visit Hong Kong, part of our own country, it was very difficult or almost impossible. At the moment, every year, tens of millions of Chinese travelers visit places across the world. And in addition, as I said earlier, we now have freedom of religious belief.
Let me share with you how I feel about my duties. As premier of China, my responsibility is heavy, the job is demanding, and there is endless work to do. 1.3 billion is a very big number. So if we use multiplication, any small problem multiplied by 1.3 billion will end up being a very big problem. For a very big aggregate divided by 1.3 billion, it will come to a very tiny figure. This is something that is quite difficult for foreign visitors to understand and appreciate.
I remember that in the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson wrote that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. He put life before anything else. So when we say that for the Chinese people's human rights, the right to life and development is most important, sometimes our friends in the Western countries find this difficult to understand. I think they only need to refer to the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson. In 1776, in that Declaration of Independence, he already put the right to life before every other right. The U.S. has also witnessed the process of development of democracy if you look at the history, from the Declaration of Independence in the 18th century, the Civil War in 19th century, and to the Martin Luther King incident in the 20th century.
I was being very straightforward. If I can speak very honestly and in a straightforward manner, I would say the understanding of China by some Americans is not as good as the Chinese people's understanding of the United States.
(编辑:twinx)